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Middle Atlantic Winter Watch: Friday 2/22/13.

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by on 02-16-2013 at 12:58 PM (529 Views)
Saturday Confirmation: RAIN/WARM

As the GFS wanted for over a week now, here's the warmth. Even more than it ever predicted. Curious as well since the low is further out to sea than expected...but that inland low is so strong and spring like - it isolated the surface coastal storm from grabbing any cold Canadian air.









Friday Update

As has been modeled for 7 days...no surprise twist. Rain is the forecast.


Of interest is Mt Holly, who always lags way behind - or never bothers with a snow map release, has chosen to make one for the event. Why?







Wednesday 2/20 Update

Good morning all. As has been modeled virtually the same for about five days now...any little hope for Friday in the form of a true snow storm should be gone.





GFS certainly slowed down however....seems to be about a day behind the NWS local forecast products.




Monday 2/18 Update

Morning everyone.

I'll just let the pictures do the talking for the most part here....







Was always to be a warm storm...but we still cling to hope the coastal feature takes over and pulls in cold air. On these maps you can see it's close - but only to the tune of maybe ending as snow for some...but meager if any accumulations as a result.






Sunday 2/17 Update


Well..Friday looks even worse....for snow lovers.



The parent low is even strong and now the GFS mirrors the ECMWF on it's trajectory North East into the Great Lakes/Upper Plains!

Look at what it does to the temperature profiles for the East Coast.

It's a bust...it's been forecast as a bust and modeled as a bust for two-three days. Not sure why that would change.






Saturday 2/16

There is the potential for a system on Friday the 22nd to deliver snow to the Middle Atlantic region.



As always with models this far out you never take them literally in detail you simply take them as a hint that a disturbance will be in the region around that time.

At present the National Weather Service is calling for rain in the region and based on model rendering this would be appropriate.




What to watch: The GFS model brings a low in from the Central Plains, sends it decaying into the upper Ohio Valley, while developing a strong new surface low in the southern Middle Atlantic. What we are looking for is whether or not the new surface reflection quickly becomes dominant causing an earlier decay of the older inland surface feature.

Whenever the inland feature remains strong, clinging to life if you will, this isolates the new coastal surface low from the cold air...and it acts as a conduit for warm air to come north and west and flood inland - thus keeping rain in the region.

However, if and when the surface low becomes quickly dominant, and the inland low decays quickly, you have the reverse take place and the new surface feature pulls cold air down from the north, deepens, and floods the region with colder air and thus a changeover to snow.

What we will look for in future model runs is how quickly the surface low forms, how quickly it intensifies frame by frame --- while at the same time noting if/how quickly the inland primary low decays. If the inland low continues to remain relatively strong as it is shown in the above image...you'll get rain possibly ending as snow at the end.

If we begin to see more evidence of a stronger new surface low and more quickly decaying primary - we can begin to assume a quicker changeover to snow, and perhaps a significant system for the middle atlantic may take shape.


More updates as is warranted...but we will give this a couple of days to stew before doing so.

In light of recent model and therefore forecasting volitility we will remain conservative and in mere analysis mode until something concrete presents itself. Only then will we begin to guess.

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Updated 02-23-2013 at 01:00 PM by P451

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  1. libgoon's Avatar
    First
  2. libgoon's Avatar
    No harm P but at the moment the models seem to be all over the place and need to get it sorted before May

    Today GFS 06Z



    Euro for Wednesday

  3. P451's Avatar
    The models have been awful all of 2013 to be honest.

    About the only reason for watching is that the potential is there and there are some hints that proper blocking could develop to force that disturbance to become a more significant coastal low.

    Other than that....there's nothing to discuss. Seems warm and wet for both Tuesday and Friday at this time.

    The nothern stream volitility and southern stream speed being too fast has caused mayhem since the end of December. The models cannot resolve it and the forecasters have forgotten how to analyze satellite imagery... and the result is all these busts.
  4. libgoon's Avatar
    and its thursday on the 12z lol

  5. P451's Avatar
    I updated the blog entry at the top...will continue to do so. Even though this system had a low potential, and now seems to even have a zero potential, we'll keep up on the model evolution and thoughts.

    Winter seems to be drawing to a close for the region...not that we ever really got cooking in the first place.

    February was going to be the month the coastal pipeline came back to life for 10-15 days...and it almost did. The problems with all the busted forecasts was rooted in a southern jet stream pacing way too fast and constantly leaving behind the accompanying northern stream upper level energy and arctic disturbances.

    We're talking misses of 12-18 hours on a frequent basis. Had the southern stream had a bit more amplitutde to it and thus a slightly slower pace - we could have had as many as six strong coastal lows affect the Middle Atlantic in 2013. Instead the genesis occurred just off our northern coasts - with New England benefitting from the late phasing of energy.
  6. libgoon's Avatar
    I see the rumour of southern snow this weekend by the GFS didnt pan out either . Honestly is a bit of a concern how poor the main models GFS and euro are doing think I might see how the CMC , the new NOGAPS and Japanese models are doing ....

    but its a beautiful day here and off to stare at the sea for a while ...
  7. InTheCone's Avatar
    Lib, you are RE-PORTED for not reporting yourself as the first poster! Looks like the winter snow train(1 car) is about to park itself for this year. It's quite chilly here(for us) @ 56 at about noon, only going to get to the mid-60's today. That's okay, it will be 80 again by later in the week and this is probably as cold as it will get here for a long time, we will still probably have some more cool downs, but low 40's are probably done until maybe next December.

    As for the models, I'm with Lib, just hope they get their act together before the Tropical Season of Global Change starts up.
  8. P451's Avatar
    Yep, Winter is putting on the brakes. The Friday system continues to demonstrate a 10% possibility of shifting cold..and 90% warm rain solution (as it always has been).

    We still wait and wonder if some blocking and a negative nao present itself - and suggest that the current models aren't predicting that therefore they aren't showing that potential solution. It's one of those things that at the last moment the blocking develops and then the models forecast based off of it now existing, and the end result is significant coastal low being rendered.

    It's a waiting game...one with low chance.

    ===========



    The models have been atrocious. Whatever upgrades they made to them they need to revert. Interesting is that the upgrades have done two things:

    One particular weather pattern they now have an extremely high success rate: Noting: October-December 2012, Middle Atlantic States - they were practically flawless.

    The next particular weather pattern they now have an extremely high BUST rate: Noting: January-February 2013, Middle Atlantic States - They have gotten only 1 storm correct - thankfully it was the big one.


    You throw in the newest forecasting protocols that began in 2012, of purposely forecasting high to alert the public to dangers, and completely rewriting forecasts every six hours to match the newest model outputs... and you have a forecasting success rate that has to be as low as 10% for long periods of time.

    It's out of control...and they need to simply REVERT to their 2010 methods and model codings... and reevaluate the changes and fix it before implementing again.

    They won't though...
  9. P451's Avatar
    I will say this though...the GFS has been consistent for four days on the general nature of this system. There hasn't been any true wild swings in how it depicts the Friday system.
  10. FLdewey's Avatar
    Can I just say... and P you can correct me if I am WAY off base.... but umm... I'm not able to really get into the whole winter storm naming thing.

    If nothing else it shows that tropical system names aren;t that bad after all.

    I'd be REAL upset if my house was destroyed by Nemo.
  11. InTheCone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by FLdewey
    Can I just say... and P you can correct me if I am WAY off base.... but umm... I'm not able to really get into the whole winter storm naming thing.

    If nothing else it shows that tropical system names aren;t that bad after all.

    I'd be REAL upset if my house was destroyed by Nemo.
    Nice to see you Dewster! I'm with you, the TWCwundertwits are trying to create a brand for themselves that everyone will follow and they may get away with it in the climate of mindless followers that many have become.

    Thanks for the morning update, P. I'm always interested in how the models are doing with the forecasting. As for the actual forecasters - couldn't we just get rid of them all and have someone post a model synopsis everyday? That seems to be all that is happening anyway.
  12. libgoon's Avatar
    Dewey , I honestly beleive most people see what it is ... hype , Marketing strategy boost ratings ... From what I have observed ,the only people who are interested in it are some of the teen storm trakers ,so they have something to chart during winter and people so intent to please TWC so they can forward their AGW agenda without challenge but that is only my Opinion . Maybe no one else agrees with that opinion and I am cool with that!!
  13. InTheCone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    Dewey , I honestly beleive most people see what it is ... hype , Marketing strategy boost ratings ... From what I have observed ,the only people who are interested in it are some of the teen storm trakers ,so they have something to chart during winter and people so intent to please TWC so they can forward their AGW agenda without challenge but that is only my Opinion . Maybe no one else agrees with that opinion and I am cool with that!!
    Sounds about right, Lib. I hope it goes away, just seems like a gimmick.

    Oh Yeah, Dewey's right about one thing - thanks Lib for keeping this place held together!
  14. libgoon's Avatar
    Either name every storm or none at all , not just because there maybe a few flakes falling somewhere between D.C and Boston
  15. FtMyersgal's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheCone
    Sounds about right, Lib. I hope it goes away, just seems like a gimmick.

    Oh Yeah, Dewey's right about one thing - thanks Lib for keeping this place held together!
    I agree with this statement
  16. P451's Avatar
    Good to see ya Dewey.

    Naming of winter storms is ridiculous. What's funny is they failed to name the early season Upper MidWest storm when they should have...if they were going to do it properly. Which of course they haven't. It's a joke and a marketing ploy as others say.

    I can't stand it and will refuse to ever jump on board with it.



    Meanwhile....Mt Holly NWS is at odds with itself again. These people confound me. Discussion followed by local zone product.

    ====

    ===
    WE REALLY DID NOT CHANGE MUCH BEYOND THURSDAY. THE MODEL TIMING WAS
    SLOWER WITH THE NEXT SYSTEM, SO WE REMOVED POPS FOR THURSDAY NIGHT.
    THE FRIDAY INTO SATURDAY MORNING LOW IS STILL FORECAST TO PASS SOUTH
    OF OUR AREA WITH THE SNOW
    , NOT SNOW TRANSITION LINE IN OUR CWA.
    BECAUSE OF THE HIGH`S BETTER POSITION NORTH OF OUR CWA, MIXED
    PRECIPITATION SHOULD REACH DEEPER INTO OUR CWA. OF COURSE THIS IS
    PREDICATED ON PRECIPITATION GETTING INTO ALL OF OUR CWA AND NOT AS
    SUPPRESSED AS THE LATEST ECMWF.

    ====

    FRIDAY
    CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. A CHANCE OF RAIN IN THE
    AFTERNOON. HIGHS IN THE LOWER 40S. CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION
    40 PERCENT.

    FRIDAY NIGHT
    CLOUDY WITH A 50 PERCENT CHANCE OF RAIN. LOWS IN
    THE LOWER 30S.

    SATURDAY
    CLOUDY WITH A 30 PERCENT CHANCE OF RAIN. HIGHS IN THE
    MID 40S.

    ====



    So, they discuss the event like an arctic clipper sliding to our south with snow....but the zone product (and models) have rain in the area?

    I honestly don't know what they're talking about.
  17. libgoon's Avatar
    I didnt!! I just have some time on my hands and its interesting stuff and I learn more everyday ...

    But thanks for the praise
  18. InTheCone's Avatar
    So, they discuss the event like an arctic clipper sliding to our south with snow....but the zone product (and models) have rain in the area?

    I honestly don't know what they're talking about.




    Glad I'm not the only one, didn't make a lick of sense to me!
  19. InTheCone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    I didnt!! I just have some time on my hands and its interesting stuff and I learn more everyday ...

    But thanks for the praise
    You is welcome! I saw that pic of the blue sky you posted around here somewhere, that looks so nice! I'll bet the days are lengthening pretty quickly at this point, so it must be giving you a taste of spring fever
  20. libgoon's Avatar
    They are its not dark untill after 6 have been out and about today makes me feel happy and in a good mood!!
  21. InTheCone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    They are its not dark untill after 6 have been out and about today makes me feel happy and in a good mood!!
    I'll bet! I am very sensitive to light and the short days really get to me - and that's in Florida where are shortest days are almost 10 hours and 30 mins! I always feel better as the daylight increases.
  22. libgoon's Avatar
    by June its hardly 4 hours of dark here .. I know its not as long a day nearer the equator
  23. InTheCone's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    by June its hardly 4 hours of dark here .. I know its not as long a day nearer the equator
    We have much less variance in our length of day here; our longest day being 13hrs 49mins and our shortest being 10hrs and 27mins. My brother lived in Alaska and we went up a few times during the summer and it just barely ever got dark! Didn't hardly get any sleep as it felt like the middle of the day almost all the time. I could not have survived the winters when the opposite is true.
  24. KanKunKid's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheCone
    We have much less variance in our length of day here; our longest day being 13hrs 49mins and our shortest being 10hrs and 27mins. My brother lived in Alaska and we went up a few times during the summer and it just barely ever got dark! Didn't hardly get any sleep as it felt like the middle of the day almost all the time. I could not have survived the winters when the opposite is true.
    The length of day here depends on how much I drink.
    But, despite my affliction, the days seem to be getting longer, and warmer (off and on).

    When it comes to all this Winter storm naming stuff and making changes for the sake of horn tooting, you gotta remember this: It's just like the guy that originally got me hooked on weather blogging sites said to me before I joined, "Kid, remember, everybody there is either a freak, a geek or a nerd except me and you, and I got my doubts about you!"
    Even brainy nerds have ego problems, so when somebody cool comes along and makes them look bad, they play the dirty trick and have them removed anonymously. With no cool guy to give them a wedgie when they pull their "naming winter storm" shxt, they get cocky and push the threshhold. I am sure at night they cower in their peanut butter fort and, chant spells they learned from the "scrolls of the elders" to keep others away, mainly to keep them from verbally taunting their virginity, which, even at 40 is no laughing matter and a matter of personal choice. What IS funny is if it isn't a personal choice, but the results of countless attempts and subsequent failures and for the same reason everytime.
    Still, we have to put up with it and appreciate the few people that use their brain and education to further the meterological craft, as it were and benefit those of us modest enough to admit we don't have ALL the answers, but we can still smell stupid a mile away.

    Long live the P451 Blog!
  25. P451's Avatar
    A curiously worded forecast in an otherwise long expected "bust".


    FRIDAY NIGHT
    CLOUDY WITH A CHANCE OF SNOW. A CHANCE OF RAIN
    AFTER MIDNIGHT. LOWS IN THE LOWER 30S. CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION
    40 PERCENT.

    SATURDAY
    RAIN LIKELY. SNOW LIKELY IN THE MORNING. HIGHS IN THE
    MID 40S. CHANCE OF PRECIPITATION 60 PERCENT.

    SATURDAY NIGHT
    RAIN LIKELY. LOWS IN THE MID 30S. CHANCE OF
    RAIN 70 PERCENT.

    Snow-->Rain. Ok, I get that...yet Snow likely Saturday morning? So which is it? Is it Rain to Snow after midnight Friday or Snow to Rain then somehow back to Snow? These guys lol...


    The GFS continues to push the same outcome...new run posted in the blog header.
  26. P451's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    by June its hardly 4 hours of dark here .. I know its not as long a day nearer the equator
    I think they dip between 11 and 13 hours of sunlight during the year.. As the earth swings around the sun the angle towards the sun doesn't shift much.
  27. InTheCone's Avatar
    Won't be long now till there's no mo snow in those forecasts!
  28. NavarreMark's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by libgoon
    Either name every storm or none at all , not just because there maybe a few flakes falling somewhere between D.C and Boston
    Horse Puckey!

    Not all storms are interesting.

    I name em when I seen em.
  29. P451's Avatar
    Even coastal New England... CT, RI, SE Mass... will have difficulty avoiding the warmth coming with this one.






  30. P451's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by InTheCone
    Won't be long now till there's no mo snow in those forecasts!
    Yep. Even getting to the point where a negative NAO and blocking is no longer a given for snowfall in the Middle Atlantic (whereas in deep winter it's a near certainty).
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